Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

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evranch
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Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by evranch » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:31 pm

So I finally got around to trying this - and as far as I can see, it works perfectly.

I took a 1/4" air line lubricator ($20 at Princess Auto) and installed it in the PCV flow. Right now I'm running 2-stroke oil as I have it in the shop, and it's made to lubricate motors and be burned in the cylinder. The bowl on the lubricator has warnings against using any solvents on it, so perhaps using pure oil is the safest.

I set it to the recommended 6 drops per minute as is recommended in the literature for some of the official lubricators that are sold. This is lean enough that there is no apparent change in operation nor is there any blue smoke.

Here is a video of the operation at idle. Edit: apparently my attempt to embed the video failed, so here's the link. You will only see it dripping if you watch at full resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWckDirL1iw
Attachments
IMG_20190112_130104_shrunk.jpg

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:06 pm

evranch wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:31 pm
I took a 1/4" air line lubricator ($20 at Princess Auto) and installed it in the PCV flow.
So let me get this straight, it is filling up from the oil vapour from the PCV and it is then going into the intake system. Is that correct? Have you got more pics of how it is hooked up?
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evranch
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by evranch » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:05 pm

The goal is to emulate this sort of product: http://www.ampcolubes.com/ to add oil to the airstream to protect the valve seats. This old tractor almost certainly does not have hardened seats.

So I'm taking the PCV flow which contains a small amount of oil mist, and adding more oil to it at a metered rate. The little sump is filled with 2-stroke oil. As the PCV flow passes through the lubricator, a venturi draws oil from the sump and atomizes it by dripping it into the air stream. There is a needle valve on top of the upper bowl that allows you to set the drip rate. I wasn't sure if it would work under mild suction conditions rather than high flow and pressure as it was designed for, but it seems to work just fine with the needle valve fairly wide open.

I chose the PCV line as it would not throw off the mixture by adding another vacuum leak. I considered drawing fuel/air mix from the mixer, but that would be more complicated and would mess up gasoline operation.

Not much else to show pictures of, that's literally all it is! At the other end of the hose is the PCV valve on the valve cover.

While running there is no apparent oil smoke, but when it's shut down some oil must drip out of the manifold and become concentrated in the cylinders. I now get one big blue "poof" of smoke when I restart the tractor. I plan to change to Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant or to Marvel Mystery Oil next time I get to a store that carries them, as they should be better than 2-stroke oil.

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:09 pm

I know how the concept works, I used to have one on my 5 litre Commodore. I find it interesting that you are using the PCV to assist.
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evranch
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by evranch » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:47 am

Yeah, it was a toss-up whether to put it in the PCV or not, but I experimented and it appears to have enough flow to drive it. I'm not sure if hot oil mist from the PCV will result in some sort of fouling of the venturi, but time will tell, and I can always clean it if it does foul. I'll monitor the consumption rate as I put some hours on the tractor.

What fluid did you use in your valve lubricator?

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:03 am

I had a flashlube kit and originally used the flashlube oil. I have also used a product from Morey's which become their upper cylinder lubricant.
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Tom68
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by Tom68 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:50 pm

Neat, but does burning oil in the combustion chamber add to or reduce the welding then blow torch effect that destroys softer valve seats.

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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by C3H8 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:24 pm

It won't increase the blow torch affect. Typically this only happens once a seat is leaking. The one thing to watch for it the quantity of lube added. Too much and you may begin to build up a deposit on the intake valve stems eventually blocking air flow. That's why Flash Lube and Mystery oil from decades ago designed a fairly lightweight oil to lubricate the valve surface while preventing the formation of deposits. I would expect that regular engine oil along with the heavy ends in propane would build deposits. This used to be an issue on the Ford 300 6 cylinder engines. They had such low air flow at idle intake valve stem deposits were an issue on both gasoline and propane. It was pretty common for a vehicle to loose power all of a sudden. When taken apart the intakes had perfect cones formed blocking the air flow. Just scoring the deposit and tapping the valve on a bench would cause it to break into two perfect halves. Typically the valve was in perfect shape if caught right away. Most customers with this engine would run a deposit cleaning chemical through the intake about every 10,000 KM's. One company even created a special kit for it back in the 1980's.

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:32 pm

The flash lube fluid is like a thicker machine (like sewing machine) oil, it is definitely not as thick as engine oil or 2 stroke oil.
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evranch
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by evranch » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm

Yes, I was wondering if coking would start to occur as it does in a 2-stroke engine. However, the oil volumes are much, much lower than in a 2-stroke.

Interesting that flashlube is thinner than 2-stroke oil. This may be why people talk of thinning 2-stroke oil with diesel for this use. I cannot source flashlube fluid in Canada.

The 2-stroke oil is only in there as a test because it was in the shop and should be fairly harmless to burn. It's been awhile since I've been to the city, but next time I go I plan to pick up Marvel Mystery Oil. It was supposedly designed for valve lubricators.

According to Wikipedia, MMO contains mineral oil, mineral spirits, tricresyl phosphate (antiwear/EP agent), and orthodichlorobenzene (carbon deposit softener). Sounds like a good package for this application.

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 pm

evranch wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm
The 2-stroke oil is only in there as a test because it was in the shop and should be fairly harmless to burn
I don't know about anywhere else but there are rumblings about banning the sale of new 2 strokes in Australia because of how much pollution they produce compared to 4 strokes.
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Tom68
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by Tom68 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm

storm wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 pm
evranch wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:34 pm
The 2-stroke oil is only in there as a test because it was in the shop and should be fairly harmless to burn
I don't know about anywhere else but there are rumblings about banning the sale of new 2 strokes in Australia because of how much pollution they produce compared to 4 strokes.
2 stroke oil isn't the biggest factor in 2 stroke emmissions. Also 4t or 2t only have to pass our lax emissions laws. They can't ban 2 strokes, only non comliant engines including diesels.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... jAFdlfY9gZ

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:31 pm

Tom68 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm
2 stroke oil isn't the biggest factor in 2 stroke emmissions. Also 4t or 2t only have to pass our lax emissions laws. They can't ban 2 strokes, only non comliant engines including diesels.
Your point is noted but our current ADRs are equal to Euro 5 and we are moving towards Euro 6. How is that lax?
This is alot of legalese about diesel engines not specifically 2 stroke of any sort. From the article
"Committee View
5.30 The evidence appears to be incontrovertible that diesel emissions are harmful to human health and should be minimised as far as possible through regulation. In a number of sectors the technology already exists to radically improve emission profiles from diesel engines. While the committee accepts that in specific cases such as underground coal mining there are genuine impediments to using more efficient diesel technology, on the whole the committee is of the view that off-road and small engine diesel emissions should be regulated.
Recommendation 10
5.31 The committee recommends that the Commonwealth develop a national emissions standard for diesel engines.
Recommendation 11
5.32 The committee recommends that the Commonwealth implement a national emissions standard for small non-road engines equivalent to the US EPA standards."

Recommendation 11 is about 2 strokes and small engines in things like outboard, lawnmowers, etc etc etc. A "partial" ban was implemented last year I think and this was to combat ebay specials from China that are extremely polluting but there are rumblings to completely ban new 2 strokes. Saying they can't ban 2 strokes, which isn't at all what I said, isn't correct. They can ban anything they want if they are allowed to, and governments are allowed to. Having said that notice I said "new 2 strokes" not just "2 strokes" banning 2 strokes would make it illegal to operate any 2 stroke, this is not part of the new"ish" laws.
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Tom68
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by Tom68 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:02 am

storm wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:31 pm
Tom68 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:25 pm
2 stroke oil isn't the biggest factor in 2 stroke emmissions. Also 4t or 2t only have to pass our lax emissions laws. They can't ban 2 strokes, only non comliant engines including diesels.
Your point is noted but our current ADRs are equal to Euro 5 and we are moving towards Euro 6. How is that lax?
You singled out 2 strokes, they are generally offroad engines, emiisions for our offroad engines are slack. Fuel tamks of permeable plastic vented to atmosphere, 2 stroke and 4 strokes polluting continuously.

Love my 2 strokes, don't like seeing them getting singled out, they only have to pass our emissions laws as they now stand.

http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/sor ... _final.pdf

storm
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Re: Air line oiler as simple valve lubricator

Post by storm » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:12 am

Taking this discussion about 2 strokes to PM so we can keep this thread on topic.
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