turbo propane set up

[gearhead]

1964 Plymouth valiant, rwd, 2750 lbs, 4 doors! Should be a ripper with 300 hp

[jono]

Hmm, looks just like what we called a Chrysler Valiant AP6.

I recall doing a lot of thinking, asking a lot of questions live and in various cyberspaces and almost got info overload

I then fettled up a turbo blows through 200 mixer mounted on a efi throttle body. The mixer was screwed to an adaptor bonded with epoxy glue to the throttle body. Did not even try running it for fear of melting the epoxy. Next was a 90 degree silicone hose between throttle body and the same 200 mixer.

I had trouble driving it much beyond first gear. Added in a balance tube of correct [3/8" ? ]ID, and only got a bit of drivabilty the finer the balance tube ID went to about 1/8".
A chat to my guru discovered I had gone against his advice and followed that of the IMPCO importers staff, the IMPCO manual and maybe someone in here too ! My guru explained that due to me fiddling with a 4 pot it had odd intake pulses that upset the IMPCO converter from delivering correct mix in turbo applications. I was playing with a flat four to make things different once again.

Back to drawing board, having seen a 225 mixer that had suffered a backfire and its weak spot [being the ring the diaphragm cover scews to] Picture a road bridge that goes nowhere but in a circle. The bridge support leg had broken and things no longer allow the diaphragm to seat on its seat. Glad I kept with the more robust 200

Following guru advice this time just went air filter > mixer > IHI turbo > throttle body and she ran up to about 3 psi boost then would stagger, pushed a bit more would hear what sounded like air pressure leak off and push harder would get a backfire through intake and blow my hoses and clamps all over the road.

Worried ? Took me five months and anther guru chat to work out I had a hole in my vac advance can on the dizzy which had a built in boost retard function. I was getting boost pressure pass through into the guts of the dizzy that would ignite from the rotor tip sparking to inside dizzy cap.

This in turn created the psshhht noise I would hear on the road before the bigger bang. Plug that vac advance vac line and finally I could drive it without back fire. Yee HAA did it go !! A new vac can enabled vac advance and boost retard to function giving a more driveable beast. A tune or two - discover what leaning rings are with IMPCO applications may be a hint for you - and I have done 80,000km of reliable, yet some times scary driving. The engine set up now awaits a new vehicle ....

You can as so many questions, get too much info - hesitate etc. Can I suggest you build it as no vapour injection first up and once set up as a basic, then advance to an injected set up once you have experienced the drive of the basic set up?

[gearhead]

thanks for the advice! the other guys on here warned me that 4 cylinders cause uneven intake pulses causing issues with the mixer. thankfully, even before I heard this I had decided on a v6. It sounds like there is a debate on weather draw thru or blow thru turbo set ups are better, but the guys here convinced me to run blow through. I really don't like the idea of fuel running through ur turbo. I've seen turbochargers spark and can imagine what would happen if the mixture was ignited pre engine! scary!
I really would like to do electronic fuel injection, but I think for now I will do mixer with a mega squirt ecu for the ignition timing and other various functions. The idea for this project is not to spend too much money, and propane injectors are big dollars for the hp goal I would like.
Having said that, projects always change from the original plans to some extent, so I might change my mind.
I'm still gathering parts at this stage so nothing is set in stone, but from what I've been told I should have reasonable success with the plans I've laid out!

I really like doing things the different way in relation to the majority and this fits the bill. Lots of people who hear of my latest project ask how i'll daily drive this car when its done(mostly because it's a 1964 and to them that's so ancient). I tell them that in the 60's it was daily driven, so why can't it be done now, the world is the same, people are just softer
(my daily right now is an 1989 ranger with a cummins 4bt I built, so far from stock it forgot what that was!)

[gearhead]

so, this project is not dead, just in the middle of building my shop this spring so I can actually make some significant progress! At this point i'm gather parts for the car. Got a front disk assembly from a 70's scamp, new rear bumper and a bigger diff.

One thing I've been thinking about is running twin impco 200 mixers. I know there was some thought of a single 200 barely making 300 whp, I don't want to be on the low end of my hp goal. I already plan to run twin condensers.
Is it just a matter of building a simple manifold that both mixers bolt to that feeds into the inlet manifold before the butterfly valve?
I uploaded a pic, let see if it works!
From some reading I understand that I might want the second mixer to open at half throttle so as not to overfuel?
And also, from reading some posts on v8 engines with mixers a big tunnel port seems to do well with propane so it gives the fuel an area to expand, basically a big intake won't hurt. also building a "box" which the mixers are bolted to can give room for the gas to expand. Am I on the right track or not?

[gearhead]

the pic is kind-of what I was thinking except it would have a 2.5 inch round outlet and have a boost hose the hooked directly to the factory fuel injected butterfly valve. hope i'm making sense

[jono]

well, for one thing, you can't expect 300 horsies to be fed from one 175HP rated 200, unless a turbo makes a difference.
I like the idea of staging the opening of the second mixer BUT surely the two will work in unison with one throttle body further down stream as the throttle body is what connects to your acc pedal ?

Not sure there is any further expansion if you have a larger plenum volume once the vapours have expanded in the converter then air mixed in the mixer.

Going turbo draws through mixer eliminates any leaks from converter due to boost pressures and you are super heating the fuel and there is some theory about propane fuels gaining some benefit being hotter rather than cooler - not that I can expand on that theory other than some second hand discussions.

Never done twin mixers or converters myself

[bumpstart]

a blow through setup does make all the difference

its current rating is a 101.3 kpa. round that to 14.7 psi

at 15 pounds boost it is now just over 200 kpa . and the airflow rating is similarly almost doubled
the vapouriser works like a fuel reg in a EFI petrol car. referenced to manifold pressure, so delivery pressure for fuel. too has also doubled

im doing over 300 hp on a 225 at 15 psi boost

blow through also doesnt have to worry about fuel making its way into the oiling system . like it will on a suck through system with dynamic front seal turbo

suck through will need to double up on mixers / blow through does not

10 years now . no probs after studding the impco 225 for the hat
( a 200 wont have this issue as it is right angle entry and has the hat held on by multiple screws )

[gearhead]

I guess i'll start with one mixer and if I get greedy for power i'll add another. Still think I want to condensers though. Not sure I like the sound of freezing up if I floor it!

[gearhead]

I read on a forum, stumbling through random info, that electric lock off solenoids are restrictive compared to the vff 30, can anyone comment on this?

[storm]

I don't know what a VFF30 will flow but I do know that most electric lock offs are restrictive. In Australia there is a couple that allow more flow than others but even they are restrictive to a certain extent. The real killer is the lock off fitted to the tank.

[C3H8]

The Model VFF30 is a combination fuel lockoff and filter, engineered for use with LPG (liquid or vapor) or Natural Gas Vapor. It is available with hydrin, silicone and fluorosilicone diaphragms. A pressure of 0.5” w.c (0.12kPa) is required to open the lockoff. The VFF30 is suitable for engines up to 325 hp (242 kW) at a maximumworking pressure of 312 psi (21.51 Bar). The extra large capacity filter element is fully serviceable.

That's from the IMPCO manual.

The actual opening in the VFF30 is around 3/16' Diameter. The electric lockoffs I have seen typically have a similar sized opening. This would include the Advanced Fuel lock offs including the G142 lockoff/filter which is an electric version of the VFF30, the ADV121, no filter, Vialle electric lockoff with washable filter and several of the Italian designed units. Several other IMPCO electrics have the same size opening. They should be capable of similar HP.

Tank lockoffs from Ceodeux and Sherwwod are rated at GPM, not HP. They meet the NA and Canadian requirement of 1.7 GPM (102 GPH). This is adequate for engines up to 550 CI. Engines larger than 550 CI are allowed a 3.5 GPM valve or the rate can be calculated with a specific formula. Some countries allow the tank lockoff to take the place of a lockoff under the hood. Others require both. Check your local requirements.

[C3H8]

The Model VFF30 is a combination fuel lockoff and filter, engineered for use with LPG (liquid or vapor) or Natural Gas Vapor. It is available with hydrin, silicone and fluorosilicone diaphragms. A pressure of 0.5” w.c (0.12kPa) is required to open the lockoff. The VFF30 is suitable for engines up to 325 hp (242 kW) at a maximumworking pressure of 312 psi (21.51 Bar). The extra large capacity filter element is fully serviceable.
That's from the IMPCO manual.

The actual opening in the VFF30 is around 3/16' Diameter. The electric lockoffs I have seen typically have a similar sized opening. This would include the Advanced Fuel lock offs including the G142 lockoff/filter which is an electric version of the VFF30, the ADV121, no filter, Vialle electric lockoff with washable filter and several of the Italian designed units. Several other IMPCO electrics have the same size opening. They should be capable of similar HP.

Tank lockoffs from Ceodeux and Sherwwod are rated at GPM, not HP. They meet the NA and Canadian requirement of 1.7 GPM (102 GPH). This is adequate for engines up to 550 CI. Engines larger than 550 CI are allowed a 3.5 GPM valve or the rate can be calculated with a specific formula. Some countries allow the tank lockoff to take the place of a lockoff under the hood. Others require both. Check your local requirements.

[kikkegek]

subscribed. I love turbo setups on propane.

[gearhead]

subscribed. I love turbo setups on propane

Thanks! I'm still gathering parts, but i'll keep updating stuff as I go. I hope to be in full build mode by this winter