US Advanced Energy Initiative & Propane Vehicles

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Frank
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US Advanced Energy Initiative & Propane Vehicles

Post by Frank » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:01 pm

President Bush has developed the Advanced Energy Initiative energy policy. The federal government's goal is to to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternative energy sources. Unless I am mistaken, a key part of this policy is a rebate and tax incentive program for alternative fuelled vehicles.

One of the beneficiaries of this program is propane-fuelled vehicles. On the Roush LPI Truck thread, Franz suggested that even if all the vehicles that could be converted to propane were to be converted, there is not enough propane available to propel these vehicles.

Is propane really a fuel that contributes to the government's 3-part goal?

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Albert
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US Advanced Energy Initiative & Propane Vehicles

Post by Albert » Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:00 pm

Thank you Frank for an Excellent Forum!!

Check out the www.propanegas.ca website for information and facts about the Canadian Propane Industry.

Some interesting points are:

86% of Propane in Canada comes from Natural Gas.

77% of Canadian Propane is exported.

Visit PERC USA at: www.propanecouncil.org

USA Propane supplies are expected to grow at least thru 2012.

Propanes Advantages are many. Especially important are:

Domestically Produced
Economically Efficient
Environmentally Friendly
Superior Emissions

For the near future Propane and Natural Gas make the most sense to me and should be with the right knowledge, information and support be The Bridges to additional Alternative Fuels.

Energy Independence is Vitally Important to any Thinking Country!!

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Steptoe
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Post by Steptoe » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:53 am

President Bush has developed the Advanced Energy Initiative energy policy.
Hmmm...
You really think its for real?
The issue at the end of the day, is not what sort of fossil fuel is used but that fact that fossil fuels are used and Carbon emissions are the issue...
Elections are coming up...and that is expensive...who pays? Industry.
What does American industry run on..(besides nuke) fossil fuels.
The cost to convert is huge...add to that the cost to run what is there more efficient is even huger....

I would like to be SO WRONG...but any faith in the American government to actually do what they say without delays, excuses and actually get the initial concepts not watered down in the end 'product' is hard to believe.

Don't take this as a 'knock the US' post...its not...
Living in a little country, stuck in the middle of the biggest Ocean in the world, is like being a fly on the wall.

Damn, if you guys knew a faction of what your Government does and docent do...and Im not referring to the conspiracy crap that goes around.

All the US will do for the next 10 or 20 yrs is lipsevice...
Kyoto should have been sorted nearly 10 yrs ago...the US screwed it.

Albert
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Post by Albert » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:43 am

I understand what you are saying and I agree mostly.

There are a lot of issues at hand here.

As I see it From a North American Standpoint, which I believe also fits the viewpoint in many Countries if you interchange them with North America:

1. Using a Cleaner fuel, that has an existing infrastructure (which still needs to be expanded greatly) whose Emissions are less then Petrol when using an Advanced System and which comes mostly from North America is a Great Step Forward. I believe Propane and CNG fit this scenerio. Ethanol too. All these fuels have their pluses and minuses but when compared to petrol inmy opinion they all are Winners.

2. Before we find "The Magic Bullet" that solves all our Energy Problems (and this may take decades and it may be a combination of Alternative Fuels) we need to first practically manage our existing issue and move vehicles, especially fleet vehicles, off Petrol.

The above listed fuels are the only ones on a large scale that can do this now and in the near future. However all Alternative fuels should be explored and all have their benefits.

3. Once we have shaken off the traditional mind set which is like irons that bind us, and this is no easy feat on a large scale I can tell you after 14 years in the Alternative Fuels Industry, and expand our minds and frontiers and focus our resources on truly solving the problem can we succeed.

4. Until the New Energy and Transportation Acts in the USA Alternative Fuels had little momentum behind them except from a small dedicated bunch of Stalwart Companies, Research Centers and Fleets.
Often the Companies that did survive the last decade did so by exporting their products to countries that were dynamic in Alternative Fuels the overwhelming majority of these countries had no or few incentives it was all about the cost of the petrol to either Propane or CNG.

5. I believe man made issues contribute to our current scenerio as to Weather Modification and Global Warming which clearly lead to "Natural Disasters" and other horrors though I think it is more to do with a Sun that is Heating Up Rapidly and Expanding Heat from Inside the Earth that is causing havoc in the Oceans which results can be seen clearly in the Artic, and Antartica.

Just one mans opinion after Cafeful Study for many years.

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Post by Steptoe » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:15 pm

I think it is more to do with a Sun that is Heating Up Rapidly and Expanding Heat from Inside the Earth that is causing havoc in the Oceans which results can be seen clearly in the Artic, and Antartica.
I look at it from a different perspective.
1/ There have been changes in the past, but none in anywhere a short time as the current.
2/Once upon a time the atmosphere was high in S CO2 etc..and the only life was algae on rocks...as this slowly used up the gases, other more plant forms evolved, using up and when die got berried...at an accelerating rate, getting stored in the earth as fossil fuels. This created an atmosphere higher in o2 ...
Then we started to digup the fossil fuels and released these gases/elements back into the atmosphere, at accelerating rate...so much so that we can now more or less estimate when the reserves will run out.
It then logically follows if we release what was once the primary elements that caused unstable atomoshperic conditions then at some stage the atomoshere will return to that condition....
Then to accelerate by removing those things in nature that bury these element at the same time as releasing them...the plant life...
Food for thought.

I digress here:
I have often thought..What if we left the plant life alone to carry on burying the CO2 etc, had a different energy source...then expolated out that the )z levels increased, what would happen....
Imagine a say 90% atmospheric O2 level...no need for NO2 or turbo/super chargers!!!

And Digress again:
Yes climate changes have taken place before...Why did exploration suddenly take off in the late 1500s to 1700s?
Technology had not changed significantly from the previous centuries...
The dark ages where dark ages because of real bad weather causing crop failures and stormy seas etc...then over a couple hundred yrs returned to a n=more calmer state, allowing the ships to venture further more safely.

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