LPG price differences and taxes ?

Propane, Butane, LPG, GPL, C3H8, C4H10
sleepybu
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:22 am
Location: BC Canada

Post by sleepybu »

michael wrote:48cents is a smoking deal
I am in the same area as Sleepy and with a cardlock account it is still around 60cents / litre
i'm in west abby so it would hardly pay for me to go out to yarrow... i figger id save about 12-13$ on 70L...

I was squeezing some #s and i came up with about 10-11 m/g in my malibu :shock: :cry:

itsmejto
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:43 am

Post by itsmejto »

Anyone in the USA using lpg vehicles care to comment on fuel prices please. I'm finding it difficult to find anyone that knows what HD-5 propane is round here, nevermind trying to actually buy some. BBQjuice is all I can get out of most of these darn rednecks here. Does anyone have an LPG filling station map for the USA ? (Apex, NC 27502) I bought a tank fill from Apex Propane and paid high dollar for it and it's contaminated with some kind of frothing clear oil. When I loosened a fitting to turn it a little, the residual liquid in the line was bubbling with foamed oily residue to the point where I had to wipe my hands several times with a rag, probably a thimble full in a 12 footx8mm line that was purged and cleaned correctly before use.
Johnny O

Frank
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Location: Stevensville, ON
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Post by Frank »

The most comprehensive LPG filling station directory for the USA I am aware of is the one the US DOE maintains:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infrast ... eling.html

I have also been looking for a directory of alternative fuel prices and the best one I've found so far is:

http://www.gastips.com

They have recently added US states to their site. Most of the other similar fuel price sites only list diesel as an alternative fuel. I have asked GASTIPS to modify their site so that there are more specific alternative fuel categories and so that the listings don't expire (or don't expire as quickly) as a gasoline listing. They told me that they would consider it but the current alternative fuel usage is too low for it to be a priority for them.

itsmejto
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:43 am

Post by itsmejto »

"They told me that they would consider it but the current alternative fuel usage is too low for it to be a priority for them."

Now there's a good way to impede progress.
Johnny O

Frank
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Post by Frank »

I think it's the chicken and the egg problem. They would get more alternative fuel users if they had the extra programming but they need more alternative fuel users to justify the extra programming. The GasTips site isn't their main business so they only devote as much time to it as they can spare.

They have made some improvements to make the site more user-friendly. I think the stations expire within 7 days unless the prices are updated sooner because they expect at least a few users to fill-up at a particular station at least once a week. Even if you don't, they have a table of stations you set up for yourself to simply the updating process.

In my case, the GasTips LPG information page looks like this:

http://gh.on.gastips.com/region?id=propane

Incidentally, since I was commuting 180 miles (300 km) per day when I registered last spring, I picked the username Road Warrior for that site.

itsmejto
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:43 am

Post by itsmejto »

Seems the problems in the USA are because there are NO gasoline stations that actually sell propane via a self filling pump, most of the vendors I have found in my area are only propane dealers and most of those don't have public access to fill a vehicles fixed tank, the carry it round the back and we'll fill it for you , stop by later and pick it up kind of places. We need time, as you said, the chicken/egg thing. Most of the fleets running propane have their own private filling systems. There must be some for the RV guys I guess, but I havn't yet found one locally to me yet other than a U-Haul and one local dealer that rips the prices to 2.50 a gallon (US gallon/$)
Johnny O

turbo matt
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:51 pm
Location: southern oregon

Post by turbo matt »

i still only pay 1.95$ gallon in southern oregon. the sign says "motor fuel sold here" too. does that mean it is road taxed?
86 f-100 302 turbo draw through,
two 425 mixer at 10 psi
or more!

franz
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Location: Central Texas
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motorfuel

Post by franz »

Any fuel sold as motorfuel in the US is charged 13.3 cents per gallon as federal excise tax. Some states impose a separate road use tax, either charged at the pump or prepaid annually (Texas for example).

More than likely, the sign is simply to attract motorfuel customers. Someone likely to by motorfuel will also tend to favor that vendor for other fuel use.

Just for what it's worth, the highest profit margin is in the 20 lb barbeque cylinder, second is motorfuel, third is home delivery fuel. Even though home-delivery may cost the most per gallon, there is extra overhead in the delivery costs (transport, salary), home tank amortization, inventory taxes etc. Forklift cylinders is grouped with motorfuel.

Also, the propane industry is almost unique in that they have to deal with collections, distribution of energy, storage and transportation of fuel, liability, safety and so on. It has one of the highest liability insurances in the country. There are few accidents, but when they happen (almost always due to third-party influences) they get noticed.

Franz

lilredex
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:30 pm
Location: Toronto,ON

LP GAS Refilling stations

Post by lilredex »

Have an '86 directory for the U.S. that was amazingly accurate in its time. I used to travel to Florida, Christmas days, via I-75 out of Detroit. I used to take my Lil Red Express with a 100 L. tank at the back and a 40 L. tank under the passenger seat floor. A typical stop listed was a campground in Tennessee, with complete instructions from I-75 and a notation that it was open 365 days a year.........and it was! One thing I learned on those trips was that U-Haul was your last choice, or switch to gasoline.

There is/was another for the Canadian market ( '97/98 ) that came out of Calgary but it was totally unreliable, because the locations here change almost hourly. In the Toronto area they had the locations listed under all of the former city/borough names in alphabetical order ( making up The Greater Toronto area ) which made it useless for the traveller just passing through. I wrote to them and offered to straighten out their Toronto mess. They said thanks and would get in touch if they should ever update it.........still waiting for that to happen which is unlikely.

National LP-Gas Association
1301 West 22 ond St.
Oak Brook, IL 60521
(312) 986- 4800



Propane Gas Association
1800, 300-5 th Ave S.W.
Calgary, AB T2P 3C4
(403) 453 - 6500

info@oropanegas.ca

For anyone who has the interest in checking the status of these directories. I think there is nothing happening with either.

lilred.

franz
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Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:57 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Texas propane

Post by franz »

Try this one for Texas:

http://www.texaspropane.org/

lilredex
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:30 pm
Location: Toronto,ON

LP refilling Stations

Post by lilredex »

Good one if you're going to Texas. So far have only made it to Beaumont on a side trip to New Orleans a few years back, and could have used those listings on your site. Just a general thought about the state of LA... Have always felt safe travelling in the U.S. except for that place. First thing that caught my eye was every car left by the side of the highway had windows smashed and/or had other signs of vandalism. Then in N.O. some locals told me I should not be this area (White Boy) and should get on that freeway and head on out pronto. Not meant in a threatening way, just good advice from somebody who knew what was going on. This was after we made the number one tourist mistake........stopping somewhere strange and looking at a map (at night). we took that advice and got out of there. Only other place I got an uneasy feeling was around Miami (Fla)

itsmejto
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:43 am

Post by itsmejto »

Trouble is that round here (NC USA) not many stations sell propane. Those that do only fill BBQ tanks. Stopped by a local Exon station today for a fill up, he put 14 gallons in the tank shown by the pump unit out back .... Then I went up front to pay for it, that was fun, she said, oh, we only sell it by the pound, hmm ... HEY BERT .... how many 20# tanks fills do I charge him .... . After Bert and herself had finished playing with their fingers and a calculator that didn't seem to work I eventually managed to convince her that a refilled tank had a service charge to pay for the guys time and I wasn't about to pay it 3 or 4 times, especially when he didn't even have to carry them to and from the pumping station, so she had to make 5 phone calls to her boss to find out what it actually cost a gallon, tuned out to be $1.81 US which is not bad for round here. She told me "that's what it will cost from now on". I'll be going back too. But only if I see her face in the PAY HERE kiosk.
This State is soooooooooo full of Rednecks you can actually buy concrete blocks in bundles of 4 at Lowes.
I kid you not.
Johnny O

sleepybu
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:22 am
Location: BC Canada

Post by sleepybu »

itsmejto wrote: This State is soooooooooo full of Rednecks you can actually buy concrete blocks in bundles of 4 at Lowes.
I kid you not.
you talken them big things? 2'x2x4 :?

itsmejto
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:43 am

Post by itsmejto »

Just think pickup truck with no wheels Sleepy.
That should paint the picture.
Johnny O

MLGPropane
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Location: Southern California - Gardena, Tustin, Corona, Temecula
Contact:

Post by MLGPropane »

http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/interest.ph ... ID=PROPANE

This station finder is pretty good for United States residents, simply click on your area on the U.S. Map, I have checked the areas that I have been to, about 13 different states, and it is fairly accurate. Those that are listed are e-mailed and asked to update the information...

I believe someone else mentioned on here previously but the best places to go, for instant full service and typically better pricing would be the actual distributors if there is one nearby... Look for the large propane bobtail trucks in your area and find where they call home.

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