IMPROVING THE EFFICIENCY OF FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS.

Tell us what you have on the go!
Post Reply
Geoff Smith

IMPROVING THE EFFICIENCY OF FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS.

Post by Geoff Smith » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:49 am

A claim that the efficiency of vehicle combustion engines can be improved by an adjustment to the fuel injection system.

I have in my possession copyright material pertaining to the operation of balanced systems such as the combustion engine of a motor car. By the systematic observation of performance prior to the fuel ignition in each cylinder it can be seen that overall performance can be improved.

This is achieved by measuring performance by monitoring the Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor over a time frame of five points and by calculation, the pulse width is adjusted. It can be seen that the instant after ignition it is possible to either more accurately measure the system or to improve the performance of the system.

In general the logic applied in the new method of system analysis is such that by systematically eliminating or acting on high negative elements within a system, it can be shown that accuracy or efficiency of the system may be logically improved automatically.

This means that engines will be capable of running much more smoothly and efficiently over a longer period of time. Fuel consumption will be reduced considerably, as it will prove that to more accurately control fuel consumption for individual cylinders is a far more efficient approach.

I have detailed data of how these better results may be achieved and will pass this information on to any person or organization that is willing to enter into a partnership for the purpose of bringing the theory to fruition.


Geoff Smith
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:44 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Contact:

New Member Registration.

Post by Geoff Smith » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:16 am

:) I wouldn't normally reply to my own post however I just wished to explain that I had posted the above article as a guest.
I have now registered as a member and advise that I am available to discuss as best I can any aspects of the post.

As an addition to the article above I would also like to point out that the theory will hold true regardless of the type of fuel injection that exists or is intended to exist.

ie. Direct injection, where providing it can mechanically be achieved, it would be preferable to have a pressure sensor mounted in the cylinder head for each of the cylinders. This would allow for more accurate measurement of performance and as a corresponding result would allow for a further improvement in efficiency.

Regards,

Geoff Smith.
My God loves me and I trust he will lead me down the path to a solution.

flyinggreg
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:45 pm
Contact:

Post by flyinggreg » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:05 am

Funny, last night (before reading this, I kinda came up with the same idea. I've been looking at converting a carb'd Ford 300 to EFI with a Megasquirt system. I don't know a whole lot about engines, just enough to get me in trouble :D . But they use a single MAP sensor, like everyone else. But, the question I had was, wouldn't it be more efficient to measure the vacuum off each cylinder. I mean come on, these systems are under the thinking that each cyclinder has the same compression ratio. That for a fact is not true. If you could measure the MAP at the entrance at each port, there would be inherent efficiency increase. If each sensor was also tied to a spark controller, wouldn't you also be able to light off the mixture at the most efficient time in each cylinder? If you really wanted to get crazy, what about turbo'ing each cylinder driven by it's own exhaust port and controlling it with an electronically controlled waste gate? What would be nice is if someone would develop a multi-channel fuel management system for cars - each channel would be for each cylinder. I wish I had the time to learn how fuel management controllers work and build one up to the specs I want. Maybe I just got some crazy ideas and don't know what I am talking about - I'm sure that's it!

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:27 am

Hi flyinggreg,
It is fascinating that you have very similar ideas to me. Your knowledge on engines is far greater than mine! I came up with idea using logic alone.
Come over and visit our Aussie site! you woiud be most welcome.

http://www.aussiecarforum.com/viewtopic ... c&&start=0

I hope you don't mind flyinggreg, but I copied your post to show the guys back home! I think they would be interested.

Eskimo
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Eskimo » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:02 am

The newer cars are doing something very similar already by measuring O2 sensors, crank position, etc.. to determine how each cylinder has burned the charge given to it, and adjusting the next time.

The processing power wasn't there 10 years ago or even 5 years ago to perform this near-real-time measurements, but as I understand it, it's being done now, without the need to drill yet another hole in an already crowded cylinder head.

Heck, look at the new BMW's that have done away with the throttle blades, and are controlling air flow with valve lift! Amazing stuff.
"the FJ" - 1970 Toyota FJ-305 rock crawler - Chevy 305, now running on BBQ juice.. http://www.rnrfab.com/rich/05build

"FJ Hauler" - 1998 Dodge Ram Cummins 3500, B20 fueled, 300hp/700tq at the wheels..

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:36 am

I have put an idea to ngk that they could design a combined spark plug / pressure sensor. I will get back to them tomorrow!

flyinggreg
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:45 pm
Contact:

Post by flyinggreg » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:44 am

Unfortunately, my knowledge of engines is limited. I learn as I go. I taught myself to rebuild the engine in my truck - basically, by taking it apart and putting it back together. I did have some books to read on how to do it and how it works. CRAZY, huh! Most of my technical experience comes from aircraft maintenance, primarily avionics.
Anyways, I base my ideas on logic too and things I come across reading.
From my electronic experience, what needs to be looked for is some sort of piezoelectric sensor that can be fit into the cylinder head. It would be a high temp ceramic. Piezoelectric means produces an electrical signal based on pressure.
HMMMM, now that I think about it, engines would be as efficient as possible with a setup that could measure highest COMPRESSION and base timing off that...far more efficient than using a MAP. Problem with MAP is it measures vacuum or pressure drop from the cylinder going down on the intake stroke. But, engines don't produce power on the intake stroke....power is produced at the end of the compression stroke when the fuel/air is ignited. Actually, it's ignited just prior to full compression - the term degrees BTDC or before top dead center.
I don't know the whole engineering aspect of it, but it seems all the timing aspect of an engine is still pretty coarse-tuned. If I have read right, it still to a few degrees. I think with some sort of pressure sensor in the cylinder itself, timing could be within tenths, maybe hundredths of a degree. With an O2 sensor controlling the mixture and a controller with a fast sampling rate of all the sensors - efficiency would be amazing.
But, that is all HYPOTHETICAL right now.
In addition to my hypothesis, I think the oil companies and the auto makers are 'in bed together' to majorly screw the consumer. I firmly believe, that engines could have been more efficient or running cleaner, cheaper fuel - except the automakers and the oil industry is purposely suppressing technology!
Any takers on that? :twisted:

Geoff Smith
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:44 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Contact:

Post by Geoff Smith » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:15 am

flyinggreg wrote:Unfortunately, my knowledge of engines is limited. I learn as I go. I taught myself to rebuild the engine in my truck - basically, by taking it apart and putting it back together. I did have some books to read on how to do it and how it works. CRAZY, huh! Most of my technical experience comes from aircraft maintenance, primarily avionics.
Anyways, I base my ideas on logic too and things I come across reading.
From my electronic experience, what needs to be looked for is some sort of piezoelectric sensor that can be fit into the cylinder head. It would be a high temp ceramic. Piezoelectric means produces an electrical signal based on pressure.
HMMMM, now that I think about it, engines would be as efficient as possible with a setup that could measure highest COMPRESSION and base timing off that...far more efficient than using a MAP. Problem with MAP is it measures vacuum or pressure drop from the cylinder going down on the intake stroke. But, engines don't produce power on the intake stroke....power is produced at the end of the compression stroke when the fuel/air is ignited. Actually, it's ignited just prior to full compression - the term degrees BTDC or before top dead center.
I don't know the whole engineering aspect of it, but it seems all the timing aspect of an engine is still pretty coarse-tuned. If I have read right, it still to a few degrees. I think with some sort of pressure sensor in the cylinder itself, timing could be within tenths, maybe hundredths of a degree. With an O2 sensor controlling the mixture and a controller with a fast sampling rate of all the sensors - efficiency would be amazing.
But, that is all HYPOTHETICAL right now.
In addition to my hypothesis, I think the oil companies and the auto makers are 'in bed together' to majorly screw the consumer. I firmly believe, that engines could have been more efficient or running cleaner, cheaper fuel - except the automakers and the oil industry is purposely suppressing technology!
Any takers on that? :twisted:
Brother we are as one!

I have the computer circuit to allow it to work.

As we all know it is impossible to reach 100% efficiency in an internal combustion engine, but I guarantee it will be as high as possible!
Can anybody work that out?

flyinggreg I hope you don't mind me "pinching" your summary again! :mrgreen:
My God loves me and I trust he will lead me down the path to a solution.

flyinggreg
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:45 pm
Contact:

Post by flyinggreg » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:35 am

Hey Geoff, you know what might work - getting a small airplane piston engine like an O-235 (or smaller) and experimenting with that. The reason is airplane engines have 2 spark plugs. You could use one side for ignition and the other for the sensor.
Other reasons for using an airplane engine, it's air-cooled and each cylinder has it's own head.
I would love to throw one of those in my truck! :twisted: Just to say I've done it!!
But, if you use an auto engine, I think you might have to drill a hole in the cylinder head at the top of each cylinder to place your sensor there.

I've got no qualms with you quoting me. Just know, I am NOT an engineer, just a guy full of ideas (and sometimes other things LOL). All these ideas need to be run by someone who can do the math. Damn!!! Should've been an engineering major and made millions - LOL!

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:53 pm

Hi Greg,

This is my second go at this answer because I had fallen asleep. lol

Greg I am close to producing all the maths necessary to make this a goer.

Conclusion, do not try to produce anything of value without at least 6 hours of sleep under the belt!

Have I mentioned before that you should come across to our Aussie Forum (and Join!) Please do, your input will be most welcome!
Address is at :D a couple of posts above!

franz
Posts: 1197
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:57 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Oops!

Post by franz » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:26 am

Hang on guys, before you start talking about 100% efficiency can someone tell me how you plan on eliminating internal engine friction? What temperature is your radiator? How cold are your exhaust manifolds? What comes out of the exhaust?

If fuel is burned, it produces heat. This requires energy which comes from combustion. That means percentage points away from 100%. An engine has motoring friction losses, usually in the 10 to 20% of total energy required, again, more percentages away. It takes energy to transform the Carbon-Hydrogen bond into Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen Oxides, Water Vapor, and so on, and that is again, more losses. If the fuel burns and makes heat, the engine coolant transfers the heat to the radiator which is radiated away from the car. That heat is measured in lost energy too. You guessed it, more percentage points.

Does the engine have a throttle? Suction throttling losses are extreme, something in the area of 25 to 30%. All in all, the engine efficiency today of around 28 to 30% is a real number and hard to overcome by even a percentage point or two. Modulating the fuel entrance, or changing the point at which the fuel is admitted, or precisely monitoring the fuel metering may help, but dont look for astronomical gains.

Franz, MASE, SAE

Post Reply