On-Board Hydrogen Generator

Hydrogen, H2 Vehicle Fuel
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Frank
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On-Board Hydrogen Generator

Post by Frank » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:10 am

I was reading an old issue of Popular Science (December 2005) and came across an article entitled "Taming Your Gas Guzzler". A Winnipeg, Manitoba company, Innovative Hydrogen Solutions, Inc., is developing the H2N-Gen which generates hydrogen gas through electrolysis by running vehicle power (13 Amps) through a small reservoir of potassium hydroxide solution.

This device supplies hydrogen fuel as a supplement to gasoline (or diesel, possibly). Since the water in the electrolyte is consumed, it needs to be topped up with distilled water at each gasoline fill-up. The inventor of this system, Joe Williams, Sr., claims that it can cut fuel consumption by up to 40% and reduce emissions by at least 50% through more efficient combustion.

This sounds good but I have my doubts that existing gasoline engines can really be improved that much by more efficient combustion. Does anyone have any experience with devices like these?


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Hydrogen gen

Post by C3H8 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:02 pm

Back in 1997 I was approached to distribute this product on the very first generation of the product. I was interested but I did some research. After calling a friend in BC that operated the aircare lab to see if he would test it he suggested I check with EPA in the US. I called the EPA and sure enough they had tested the product. A week later and $50 poorer the comprehensive test data arrived. They tested three different vehicles, two carbureted and one TBI. The results showed absolutely no difference in mileage or emissions. The EPA considered that they may have done something wrong in the installation and called the manufacturer and inventor of the product. Informed him of their results and suggested he assist them to insure they had followed the directions properly. He informed them their results were wrong but he was not interested in helping. They ran the tests a second time with the same results. I showed them to the people trying to recruit us a a distributor and they could not provide any answers except, very interesting. They left.

Several dealers in the Calgary area tried their product over the next several years with very mixed results. Discussions with vehicle owners claimed no improvement to wild claims of 40%. Most claimed no improvement. The company eventually went bankrupt leaving some dealers holding unused unsupported product. The company reopened under another name but the cost of the new and improved kit was quite high.

We questioned the viability of this kit considering newer vehicles have O2 sensors that will self correct. This product added O2 to the exhaust and actually caused an increase in fuel consumption on computer controlled vehicles. Later they started buying O2 fixes off of us to correct the O2 reading. Later product also had a generator problem. The generator was a plastic bottle, specially designed, with a heating coil on it. I wasn't very comfortable with the idea of an electrical charge running through manufactured hydrogen. A recall was actually made on some of these units for an electrical fault.

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H2

Post by franz » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:39 am

I average about 6 e-mail hits a week from people who either want me to endorse their hydrogen from water process, or from people who want to buy one and want my opinion.

After telling one VERY persistent individual that their process was full of C**P, he threatened me by stating he could track me down through my website and pay me a visit and teach me a lesson with a 2X4, I forwarded his mail to AOL and the FBI. He has not contacted me again <grin>.

All his process needed was electricity, a MIG welding apparatus, some aluminum welding wire, a waterbath with deionized water, and a compressor with tank to store the hydrogen. Hmm, whats wrong with this picture?

This process requires more energy to extract H2 from water than the H2 produces in when burned. Some websites harp on "Over Unity", where there is more energy produced than required, hogwash.

Cole
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Post by Cole » Tue May 15, 2007 1:04 am

ME and a few guys from my auto class have played with some of theses onboard gens we got online and I did like the idea allot at first. We had a 15-20%incress in fuel Mileage(1996 Chevy v6 vortex SUV ) but the cost of buying parts and the upkeep of the system out numbered the savings, The System we worked with needed more power then the sock charging system of the vehicle produced, We had to buy a high out-put alternator I ended up useing 2 alternators and 2-volt batteries still more power was needed to keep a charge :(

O I will allso will try to get the video's we made and post them here.I think as time goes on this systems will become cheaper and more efficient. Over the last 5 years there has been much improvement in the HH-O gens and I think it’s a possible answer to our fuel problem in the future
Last edited by Cole on Sun May 20, 2007 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cole Irmen

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Post by Steptoe » Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 pm

Bottom line...
without getting into electrons, protons, atomic bonding and such

the water molecule atoms H2 and O are 'glued' or stuck together...
This is done by mixing the 2 in the right proportions and supplying a small amount of energy....from here the process becomes self sustaining as it produces its own energy.
To break this bond, the same amount of energy that it gives off must be applied...and we all know, mechanical energy produced, as in an electric generator is not 100%. There is loss between the energy to turn the generator and what it produces.

So the figures just cant match up...energy can not be created or destroyed, it is just transfer ed or stored....unless we move into nucular energy E=MC2 and stuff like that...a totally new and different and unrelated field of nuke powered cars.

like 2 smooth metal surfaces that have been super glued, it doesn't take much effort to apply the glue and press tight....( let us not forget the energy potential put in the superglue when it is manufactured...)
But the energy that it takes to separate the 2 metal pieces, be it heat or leverage is huge

Cole
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ye

Post by Cole » Tue May 15, 2007 4:17 pm

Yes i see what your saying
in my last post i didnt say the car or SUV was runing not on only hydrogen its still had the stock fuel system all we had was a small amount of hydrogen being sucked in the egine to make it more efficient

It was a very fun project and good learning experance for alternative fuel guys 8)
Cole Irmen

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Post by Steptoe » Wed May 16, 2007 4:46 pm

Yes I saw what u are saying...
all we had was a small amount of hydrogen being sucked in the engine to make it more efficient
Definition of "Efficient"
Yes the engine, taken on its own, will be more efficient, but if the overall energy is put into the equation to then assess overall efficiency of the engine.....

A thought..
When and engine charges a battery (thru the alternator, H2 is given off, and wasted...now it this could be harnessed and used.....the down side is that the amount of H2 given off is too small to be effective, then add the cost of collection, storage, injection, really doesnt make it practicable.

Cole
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Post by Cole » Sun May 20, 2007 2:48 am

yes i understand that but we did it as a learning project. It took to much power to run it to make the gen worth runing
Cole Irmen

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