1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Let's hear all the gory details about your car and how it became alternative fuelled.
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Delifisek
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:03 pm

1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Post by Delifisek » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:42 am

Greetings, I post from Turkey. Which 37% of gas cars had LPG conversation

I bought my car in 2009, it was my first car too.

It has 2.8 liter v6 ford cologne engine. It has already converted to LPG. Anyway after some time it started to show some problems and then I found it has blocked intake to stable idle.

Then I start my quest about LPG.

Currently I work with my friend to tune LPG cars. Replace their LPG setups. Our current hand on knowladge was carb setups.

Regards...
Hello. I'm from Turkey. We are using metrics system (km and litre)
Also English not my native language. Thank you for understanding.


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Steptoe
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: JAFA , New Zealand

Re: 1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Post by Steptoe » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:34 pm

37% that is a real suprise, I always thought Netherlands Aussie and a less degree NZ where the main users
Does Turkey import mainly lpg cars or convert?
What sort of lpg units are used?
What sized engines?
Much turbo stuff?
Is there much reserach/devalopement in Turkey or is it done over seas like neatherlands and Aussie?

Cheers
Steps
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'

Delifisek
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:03 pm

Re: 1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Post by Delifisek » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:59 am

In Turkey LPG is a must for Gas cars, and very considerable for diesels. Because we are using world most expensive liquid fuels... Plus our income around 5.000 us dollars. We had very unefficent tax system so goverment uses gas stations as tax offices...

Dacia offers some factory fitted LPG cars (if I remember correcly it was zavoli seuental systems).

LPG conversions for 0 km vehicles are seen and incresing. Carburetted cars mostly had LPG system. Non LPG cars are very rare and owners demand more for that cars.

On systems, There where tier one brands. BRC, Prince, Teleflex etc. Impco was unheard. Also there where lots of Ittalian and Polish rebranded products. All of them do the job. Main problem is tuning. Tuning knowladge is very low, lots of LPG cars run inefficent but runs.

Due to our car laws and car, parts tax regulation (when you buy new car it was almost twice expensive), turbo, engine swap is too hard. Also aftermarket parts are too expensive. Custom engines with lpg was even not blimp in the radar. Because of low tuning quality most lpg cars are underpowered and consume more gas. (think a 1.6 ohv i4 itallian engine consumes 15 liter of was considered norm) and because of this LPG considered second grade product. People did not like them, if we had USA level gas prices no one consider using LPG...

Also there where lots of diesel lpg systems,all of them for big trucks, diesel lpg systems still to expensive for cars.

In our country 2.0 considered big and 5.7 liter was legend. My poor 2.8 v6 has "cool, superb" effect. Even it was fords most stupid engine design ever... Our default engine was 1.6... For new cars diesels have an edge... new economy diesel cars have 1.3 engines.

Also, for new cars popular car format was this.

Image


Summary is.
Lots of LPG cars. Carb ones almost converted. Lots of rooms for injected newer model cars. BRC is top brand and most favorite was Zavoli, Atiker (local brand) for sequentals, Aldesa (local brand) for carb ones. Most systems are vapour based. Liquds are rare. Conversion cost for sequental around 1.000 us dollars for carb systems 300 dollars and no goverment support. If you had LPG car, before the MOT you have to pass LPG MOT in every 2 years. You must change LPG Tank for every 10 year...

And I do not believe is there any LPG research in our country. Following Franz Hoffman posts from various internet sources made me very respectable LPG tuner.
Hello. I'm from Turkey. We are using metrics system (km and litre)
Also English not my native language. Thank you for understanding.

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Steptoe
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: JAFA , New Zealand

Re: 1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Post by Steptoe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:12 pm

With all due respect..your description is a real eye opener....
So the national fleet of cars tends to be older carbed cars?

CNG and LPG was introduced in NZ in the late 70s early 80s...since then CNG at the pump has been discontinued..LPG is very common nationally.

Early installs here wher very amatureish, not though , as sounds with your country...as was the competive extra cost to set up correctly
The main issue was to get around the loss of power was to simply increase the intial timig from aroud the factory petrol setting of 4 /8 degs (depending on model) up around 14 or 16 degs.....
This ineffect gave a faster cent curve.
But resulted in several misconceptions about LPG.
LPG burns out starters...well increase intial and engines are harder to start and far greater current loads thru armitures.
LPG burns valves...If the intial is turned way up without a reduction in the total advance, keeping in mind LPG has less total than petrol...yes the valves burn because of the advance not the fuel.
LPG hard on bearings...if way over advanced on is cruising down the highway with and advance up in the 50 or even 60 degs, when should be no more than about 40 with Vac Advance....the piston is still coming up when it fires, loads bearings, gudgens....and runs very inefficient...still cheaper but no where near as cheap as should be.

Simply dropping in a set of springs in the dizzy, light enough to hold in at idle plus a couple 100 rpms, and limiting the cent+intial curve to about 32 degrees would solve all those issues, and be in the ball park...

Even today automotive LPG prices are sort of based on a saving of 1/3 in the pocket over petrol, which in my book is convient to anyone who wishes to dial their engine in correctly
We have reasonably expensive petrol 91 octane about $NZ2.07c /L.....current rate to $US about 80c
An approx 420 km return trip on LPG in a LPG 3400lb 5.7L American 1960s muscle car costs about $NZ70
On petrol approx $NZ130
Compare that with a say 1.6L 1990s toyota corolla in good tune on petrol about $NZ65
And if we are talking carbon foot print the old V8 Camaro is close to a modern medium sized (1.8/20L) japanese sedan.

I have not played around with small engines, but u can certainly see the potentaul of just basic tuning of LPG as against a quick conversion to LPG...and the potentual for someone to build a very good reputation in and industry that doesnt have one.
Cheers
Steps.
PS love middle eastern food..getting near to time to go hunting again to fill the freezer with young wild goat.
My Spelling is Not Incorrect...It's 'Creative'

Delifisek
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:03 pm

Re: 1983 European Ford Granada Mk2

Post by Delifisek » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:27 am

Hmm not exacly...

My english not so good and I try to explain...

In our country car market is not saturated, more than %60 of people does not have a car and everyone wants a car and car taxes are high (simpy doubles the price for cheapest cars, for luxury x3 or x4 was possible) because of this, second hand value was very high. Your example corolla was very favorable car in here and may cost more than 10.000 NZ Dollars.

Because of these factors old cars does not fade quickly, one time goverment issues old car tax repay, pre 80's local builds are faded a lot but not all of them.

So our fleet was mixed bag. Not because of production but income level and last 10 years our economy was improving car loans just started and still expensive for most people...

Our lpg setups was vary. You can find very good and professional rock solid setups. Otherwise people does not convert their 2011 model cars and of course with badluck you find a butcher too. Biggest problem is tuning, most of LPG tuning shops still not have clue about air to fuel raito. Yes they can fix your car, it will run and you will see a plastic wrapper your air intake to stable idle... The other things about lpg tuning out of question... Difference between LPG and gas stil not regarded. Ignition timing lamp is very rare thing. Most cars run on gas ignition curve... Even they do not alter sequental systems for LPG burning requirement (Let say most of them run 14.7 gas AFR). I know only one guy try to modify ECU's for lpg and people look him very suspicious...

For runing costs. My 2.8 v6, 1.5 ton granny (very similar look of 80's for falcons (falcon d I assume)) run 450 km trip for 80 Nz Dollars. Stupid thing is most 1.6 local build fiats doing same...

Our current lpg price for one liter was 1.67 NZ Dollars and 1 liter gas is 2.84 NZ dollars and 1 liter Diesel 2.57 NZ Dollars.

Regards...

PS: Good hunting...
Hello. I'm from Turkey. We are using metrics system (km and litre)
Also English not my native language. Thank you for understanding.

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